CCB Magazine

Crowdfunding, crowdfunding and crowdfunding again. Does that make sense? Alexander Sängerlaub of Kater Demos, a passionate political magazine, finances its issues over and over again via crowdfunding – and always via Startnext. The fourth campaign is currently running. What are the advantages and disadvantages of permanent funding? And can this work forever?

INTERVIEW Jens Thomas
 

CCB Magazine:Hello Alexander, you have just completed your fourth crowdfunding campaign on Startnext. One crowdfunding after the other, isn't that exhausting in the long run?

Alexander:This is definitely a costly process. The good thing is that you don't start all over again every time. And because you know exactly what to expect, you can plan pretty well. That way, you gain routine and learn from successes as well as mistakes.

CCB Magazine:A crowdfunding campaign thrives on promotion and persuasion. Doesn't that dwindle away with increasing routine? 

Alexander:No, you rather hang in there, because you want the magazine to be printed and published at the end. In addition, the topics of the magazine are always new. That's why our supporters, except for the core readership, are always different.

We are a monothematic, utopian political magazine. Our issues are consistently interdisciplinary and multi-perspective. We call this constructive journalism

CCB Magazine:A short introduction to our readers: What is Kater Demos exactly?

Alexander:Kater Demos is a monothematic, utopian political magazine. That distinguishes us from others. Our approach is to consider how social problems can be solved in the future.

CCB Magazine:I would say that this is what every second magazine feels about itself. What is so special about Kater Demos?  

Alexander:We do completely different journalism. We go beyond mere reporting and provide not only descriptions of reality but also approaches to solutions. And we take a monothematic approach, so our issues are consistently interdisciplinary and multi-perspective. For this purpose, we choose a main topic, in the second issue, for example, it was 'Work'. Here we ask how work and the world of work are changing as a result of digitalization or robotization, but we also ask what this means politically: What does it mean for the welfare state when we run out of work? Do we need a basic income, for example, or is it enough if everyone just reduces their working hours? And what does that mean for you and me personally? We call this constructive journalism. It means at its core to focus on visionary political concepts of tomorrow.

We all work voluntarily. What we do is also not in line with the market. We are idealists. We could have filled the magazine with advertising, but we don't want that

CCB Magazine:Your fourth campaign is about "The foreign - what separates us and what unites us". You are again financing the issue through crowdfunding. What can you finance through this?

Alexander:We use it to pay the production costs of the respective issues. In the first crowdfunding campaign 2015, we raised around 10,000 euros, in the second it was a little less, around 5,000 euros, and in the third we even raised 11,000 euros. So, we used this funding to cover printing and distribution costs, a little remained for marketing activities, stickers, for example.

CCB Magazine:That means there is nothing left for you? You work permanently for free?

Alexander:Yes, we all work voluntarily. What we do is also not necessarily in line with the market. We are idealists. We could have filled the magazine with advertising, but we don't want to do that because we want to remain independent as editors. That's why the magazine is completely free of advertising. Where can you still find that today?

CCB Magazine:Volunteering stands for civic engagement or a kind of volunteer work that helps others. Isn't what you do simply social commitment instead of 'work' in the sense of gainful employment? And isn't it your goal to be able to live from Kater Demos some day?

Alexander:It's funny that the word "work" always brings to mind "gainful employment" first. This is also a myth that we will be cleaning up in our second issue. There are many meaningful jobs, all of which are "honorary": Garden work, homework, relationship work and much more. But of course, it would be nice to make a living out of it, but then we would have had to make a different magazine: Full of ads - and we don't want that. But of course, we always ask ourselves the question: Is this the best way for us to keep on crowding? Aren't there also other ways?

CCB Magazine:And? Are there any other ways?

Alexander:So far, we have come to the conclusion: no. Crowdfunding is the best way, at least for the time being, to bring the magazine directly to the man or woman. It is like pre-ordering the next issue. We live in times when the print markets are in decline. With the exception of the big publishing houses, there are hardly any successful financing strategies left in the print sector. Especially since the print advertising market has collapsed along with the print runs at the same time - for years now, advertising flows have been increasingly flowing into the digital world. This is precisely why crowdfunding is so exciting. And for us, it’s the best way: we reach our community through it, and if we wanted to sell the issues profitably at the kiosk, we would need completely different margins.

CCB Magazine:We just had Katrin Rönicke from podacst label hauseins in the magazine, who offers one of her podcasts, "die Wochendämmerung", via a so-called crowdfunding subscription via the platform steady. She takes in over 3,000 per month. Why don't you do that?

Alexander:We have actually thought about it. The reason why we have not offered a crowdfunding subscription so far is because we have too irregular release intervals. The podcast of Katrin Rönicke comes once a week. So, you give a monthly amount, but you also get something back every week, the podcast as a product. With a print magazine like ours, which appears a maximum of twice a year, it would be difficult to explain why you should now pay a monthly fee for it. Besides: The crowdfunding subscription doesn't work for everyone. The crowdfunding subscription basically only works for those who are already established. This is not really crowdfunding at all, it’s a subscription. In the case of the podcast it’s an online subscription. One could actually even offer it on one's own website. The crowdfunding platform is then used as a service provider; it takes over the entire handling, which you would otherwise have to do yourself. We also offer a classic print subscription. And parallel to that we have other distribution models, such as events. Crowdfunding is not the only financing channel for us.

In the field of journalism, it will be difficult to make a living through crowdfunding at some point. And 60 people work on our magazine. I haven't seen a crowdfunding subscription in journalism that raises enough money to provide income for so many people

CCB Magazine:Alexander, our event on 26.3. is called "Crowdfunding and Long-term". It's about ways to make crowdfunding sustainable in the long term. Which ways do you think make sense? And which paths do you have to take in order to be able to live from your work at some point in the future?

Alexander:I can only speak for journalism here. And here it will be difficult to make a living through crowdfunding. If you look at the last thirty years and see which print magazines have made it from the indie market to the mass market that were not offered by the big publishers, you can count them on one hand. By the way, if you do some research, even very few projects collect a lot of money via the crowdfunding subscription in order to be able to finance jobs at all. Successful crowdfunding subscription projects usually have to have the reach to reach the mass market, like Krautreporter or Übermedien, then you can certainly make a living from it. There are 60 people working on our magazine, I have not yet seen a crowdfunding subscription in journalism that raises enough money to provide income for so many people.

CCB Magazine:But wouldn't that be a goal? Work should be paid.

Alexander:Sure, but when people get involved in volunteer work, I don't say "Stop right now and get paid for it!” Not all projects can be implemented in the logic of the market - it also takes many volunteers to support our society. But yes, you have to live on something.

CCB Magazine:Finally: Is crowdfunding then more a kind of market test to find out if what you want is wanted or needed or to finance a first prototype?

Alexander:Crowdfunding is a good way to check if your product works and if anyone out there is interested in what you have come up with. Of course, you also need a feeling for a well-done campaign.

CCB Magazine:Alexander, how many more issues do you want to do about crowdfunding and where will you stand with your magazine in a few years? 

Alexander:After the #05, which we are crowding out until the end of the week, we will take more care of our home in the digital world. Print is beautiful, but no longer the medium of the moment to reach people. Today we also start our first own radio show on BLN.FM. So, we will digitalize and further diversify the offer of Kater Demos. I could imagine our kind of journalism also outstanding as video podcast - that would be then perhaps also the correct format for a crowdfunding subscription.

Here you can find more interviews about new crowdfunding models:

(1) What are the benefits of combining crowdfunding with a microloan? [Interview with Kerstin Eisenhut from Startnext]

(2)  Does a crowdfunding subscription make sense? How does it work? [Interview with Katrin Rönicke from Label hauseins]