CCB Magazine

Philipp Grefer launched the WISE festival in 2018, an international renowned format in the field of music technology, AI and creative industries that became popular in China - on May 19, it will take place for the second time in Berlin and for the first time under the auspices of a war in the middle of Europe. How does the new world situation change a festival format like WISE? Will international cooperation and networking be put to the test? A conversation under hardly predictable conditions.
 

INTERVIEW   Jens Thomas

CCB Magazine: Philipp, a few weeks ago we would have started the interview quite differently. We would have discussed the program points of your festival, a bit of interview trivia here, the usual festival banter there. Now we have a war of aggression in the middle of Europe. WISE is one of the most renowned international festivals in the field of music technology and has been held in China for the last few years. Now that China has still not clearly distanced itself from Russia and there is talk everywhere of the end of a "change through trade," will the festival ever be held in China again?

Philipp Grefer:If China opens up again, yes. It is otherwise difficult to imagine a decoupling from China. China has 1.3 billion people. It is the largest economy in the world. Approximately 60 percent of the world's population lives in Asia with 4.5 billion people. Our goal is to link Europe with Asia and especially with China. We will stick to that. But at the same time, we will also open up WISE to other regions of the world.

CCB Magazine: How does the current world divide change a festival format like yours? 

Philipp Grefer: There are, of course, geographical shifts. But international cooperation and networking are not under scrutiny. What is noticeable is that China's strict corona policy - you have to spend almost three weeks in quarantine there before you are allowed to enter the country - has made exchanges extremely difficult in the last two years. On the other hand, other new networks are emerging. This year, for example, there will be a panel for the first time on the African market, which is currently undergoing extreme development - and in which, incidentally, Chinese-invested streaming providers are already active. 

The upcoming paradigm shift from Web 2.0 to Web 3.0 is the central topic. We are still at the very beginning here - but there is a new spirit of optimism, just like in the New Economy 20 years ago. You just have to watch out for the bubbles

CCB Magazine: Now let's talk about individual festival points. What are the central highlights this year? 

Philipp Grefer: The upcoming paradigm shift from Web 2.0 to Web 3.0 will be one of the central topics - the whole discussion around Metaverse, Non-Fungible Token (NFT), Blockchain complex and its impact on music, art and the creative industries. Here, we are still at the very beginning and we all have a lot to learn. But there is a new sense of optimism, like the New Economy of 20 years ago. That's highly exciting. You just have to watch out for the bubbles. 

CCB Magazine: A panel with journalist Marcus Bösch will focus on how the new world order is shaping and changing European-Chinese (cultural) exchange. TikTok, for example, was transformed by the war from an entertainment platform to a multiplier of political messages. Are we experiencing a new politicization through digitalization?

Philipp Grefer: I would say that TikTok has been political before, although not to the extent that it is now. But just think of the last American election, where Trump wanted to ban TikTok and young people mobilized against Trump via TikTok. And of course everyone is expressing themselves politically at the moment, because the Ukraine war demands political positions. But I don't see any fundamental politicization here, rather a cyclical heating up. It also has to be said that the digital infrastructures like TikTok or Instagram that spread these phenomena are with the Chinese or the Americans. China has laid the pipelines, now all it has to do is eventually deliver (positive) content that interests the world. 

CCB Magazine: One of the central questions in connection with digitalization and the creative industries in recent years has always been how much growth culture and the creative industries can tolerate, and whether they themselves will not ultimately lose out - because the globalized market giants are increasingly dominating the market. Is this question now being posed in a completely new way? Is it now first and foremost a question of safeguarding democracy?

Philipp Grefer: In general, we see an information war between different countries and systems. This information war is fought with content and the infrastructure at its disposal, see above. Interestingly, Russia in particular has not built its own information infrastructure at all. In any case, it does not have its own international social media channels. Of course, Yuri Milner's investment in Twitter and Facebook must still be questioned critically. Nevertheless, Russia has cleverly managed to surf Western media and spread disinformation, even influencing the outcome of the U.S. election campaign. So if you want to secure democracy, you have to be able to control the content and the above-mentioned pipelines. In addition, democracy itself must remain attractive. Otherwise, the rest is just brainwashing.

In general, we see an information war between different countries and systems. This information war is fought with content and the infrastructure at its disposal

CCB Magazine: Another focus this year is the climate crisis. What does it have to do with music and technologization?

Philipp Grefer: Every industry, and the music industry is no exception, has to look at how it can reduce its carbon footprint. DJs in particular are frequent flyers, and there are studies on this that we will talk about at WISE. During the pandemic, different streaming approaches were tried. They can't replace the live experience. But technology may evolve in the future to the point where it will eventually re-envision the live experience and even compete with the live event. If that happens, there may be less traveling and flying, which could result in a significantly lower Co2 footprint. At the moment, however, everyone is happy that festivals are taking place again at all. In the long term, there will probably be no way around the fact that we can fly in a Co2-neutral way. 

CCB Magazine: Another focus at WISE is how the last two years have changed the way the music industry has to do business across borders. How has corona affected the international music market? 

Philipp Grefer: The fact that musicians couldn't tour and thus not only didn't get live fees, but merchandise sales declined, hit the whole industry hard. In addition, publishing royalties from live events have plummeted. The labels and publishers have tended to fare much better than the live industry and the artists. Now we are experiencing a bit of a return to normality, with all the problems we already knew. The shortage of skilled workers is striking and the costs for live productions and services have risen enormously. All of this will continue to change the industry.

CCB Magazine: Philipp, what is your long-term goal with WISE? How do you want to change and advance WISE? 

Philipp Grefer: WISE has so far taken place on two continents in a total of six cities and the Metaverse. We have brought together creatives and a wide variety of innovators. In total, we have connected a good 3,000 extremely interesting people across borders over the last five years. We want to continue to grow this network of the WISE community - globally, worldwide. I am looking forward to it.