CCB Magazine

Wolfgang Stüßel: "We wanted to ensure continuity"

Photo: © Theater Strahl

In our new series "How are you in form?" we ask which legal forms are the right ones for creative professionals: GbR, GmbH, gGmbH or all together? How do you organize yourself? What are the advantages of one or the other legal form? Wolfgang Stüßel is the last remaining founding member of Theater Strahl, which has been established in the independent theater scene in Berlin since 1987. In 2011, the theater changed from an association to a gGmbH. We wanted to know from him: What has changed since then?
 

INTERVIEW  Boris Messing

CCB Magazine:Hello Wolfgang. Theater Strahl has been in existence as an independent theater group since 1987. You first organized yourselves as an association and then changed to a non-profit limited liability company (gGmbH) in 2011. How did that come about? 

Wolfgang Stüßel:We decided to take this step on the advice of the Senate, which told us at the time that the financial dimensions in which we were operating were unfavorable for the legal structure of an association. The association has the disadvantage that the board or the management is liable for everything that can go wrong financially. And since we had an annual budget of 600,000 to 700,000 euros at the time, a mistake could have been very costly privately, if not ruinous, since we as the board would have had to pay for the damages. With the gGmbH, however, the shareholders are only liable with the shares they have deposited, which in our case is 6,000 euros per person. That is the minimum amount that must be contributed.  

CCB Magazine:So, the limited liability through the gGmbH was the main reason for your change.

Wolfgang Stüßel:Exactly. But another reason was that the shareholders of the gGmbH ensured a certain continuity. We've been around since 1987, so our staff structure is pretty solid. In the long term, the legal structure of the association would have meant that new members would have been able to change firmly anchored structures, which would have jeopardized the stability and continuity of the entire company. At the association, it's always the general meeting that decides on personnel issues. But we didn't want to jeopardize our firmly anchored expertise, which the people at Theater Strahl have developed, with any new members. It was also important for the Senate to have continuous and reliable contacts. After all, we are moving into funding dimensions that go beyond project funding, so continuity and stability, etc. are very important and decisive.

Since we have grown continuously since 1987, the change from association to gGmbH made sense for us to reduce liability and ensure continuity

CCB Magazine:And what is the non-profit aspect of theater? Does it make a difference whether you are a non-profit association or a non-profit GmbH?

Wolfgang Stüßel:No, that does not make any difference per se. Even as a gGmbH, we have to fulfill the same conditions as a non-profit association. First and foremost, this means that we are not allowed to make a profit with our cultural offerings. All income flows into the theater operations. We also have to prove this. When we were still an association, the legal situation was very similar; there, too, we were not allowed to make a profit or strive to maximize profits. 

CCB Magazine:Has anything changed with regard to donations and their taxation?

Wolfgang Stüßel:No. We can and could issue a donation certificate both as an association and as a gGmbH. This is legally the same.

CCB Magazine:But surely something has changed with regard to your employee structure, right? For example, the permanent positions.

Wolfgang Stüßel:No. Let me put it this way: apart from the fact that we have grown over the years and have more employees, nothing has changed. In the beginning there were only four of us, then the infrastructure gradually grew, but all that did not force any changes by the change from the association to the gGmbH. Even in the association we already had a management. Only the question of liability arose as our theater grew.

Whether it's an association or a gGmbH - it doesn't matter as far as the funding pots are concerned. Without the non-profit status, however, some funding pots would fall away

CCB Magazine:You are part of the independent scene, which is usually dependent on public funding. Are there funding pots that you can no longer apply for because of your change? And/or are there sources of funding that are just opening up as a result?

Wolfgang Stüßel:To be honest, there is no difference. I don't know of one at the moment. I think it would only be different if we were not a non-profit organization. But whether we are an association or a limited liability company - it doesn't matter as far as the funding pots are concerned. Without the non-profit status, however, some funding pots would fall away.

CCB Magazine:If you would give a tip to others: Which projects would you recommend such a path as yours, under which circumstances would you advise against it?

Wolfgang Stüßel:The conversion was easy in that the Senate's advice made it easy for us to take that step. This recommendation helped us a lot. But it is difficult to advise anyone in principle, because it always depends on the situation and constellation. Since we have grown continuously since 1987, the change from an association to a gGmbH made sense for us in order to reduce liability and ensure continuity. There is also, for example, the issue of generational change in the management of the theater. I am the last founding member who is still active in Theater Strahl. Here it's important how the scepter is passed on. We discussed and settled all this together. This whole generational change process was much easier in the form of a gGmbH. But I can imagine that it's quite different in an association with only a few members. Or, if there are even fewer, to organize as a GbR. You always have to look at the individual case of the institution. And the question is always: where do you want to go in the long term? In other words: which lid fits on the pot that you currently have.

Category: New Player